Getting to zero: the Japan town trying to recycle all its waste


(Bill Ames) #1

As can be seen in this article the planet is suffering from a plague of people. From my point of view, we solve this with technology in the next 180 years. Many are afraid of technology, this includes AIs and genetic engineering. Most humans alive do not understand all the things they have so they do not know how best to use the tools at their disposal. They have Facebook but they use it to argue and post cat photos. People (the waste makers) spend all their time complaining (like this) rather than fixing the problem (I am fixing the problem by explaining to not be afraid of the AI.) Why I ask, am I the only person like me to be found wandering the halls here at Ideapod? Does anyone play chess?


(Chris Lagos) #2

I disagree with your assessment of the article that you posted. I don’t think it demonstrates a plague of people by any measure. It shows the people there trying (and succeeding apparently) to deal with the problems of consumption beyond the house.

I think it is best to release tightly held pre-suppositions , look, think . I suspect it only deludes when every occurrence only serves to prove your theory.
If AI is going to fix the future world as you posit , then fine it could happen theoretically . I suspect the problem with your overall paradigm, (because it is closely tied to story ) is that our reality is a story and we need an external hero and to live happily ever after, the end. I think there is no end for one, and two , happiness is not the goal, neither is loss of struggle . I think the AI poses an Oedipal problem . I admit that I can be wrong , I could be missing the point too , I look , try to see what I see and be with it in a harmony , like a ballroom dance, I see movement and and move avoiding collision .
A good science fiction movie that demonstrates part of the Oedipal problem is a fairly new one called , I am mother .


(ACD) #3

This is well said and correct.


(Bill Ames) #4

I did not invent AI, and the SF that I read as I grew up did not propose AI. Then, AI arrived and we see that it has potential. Most of the 7 billion have no concept of AI or of this potential. It is a tool. The internet is a tool, your PC is a tool. Both of those can be misused or not. Same with AI. I have no idea why so many of the 7 billion are afraid of the future. They will not be there, they need not worry. Who speaks for humanity? That which humanity creates to do that. An AI will continue when its creators are long dust. In a few thousand years it is likely our minds will live on (that is just SF from 25 years ago) and in 10,000 years we may become eternal. Perhaps 100,000 years is a better time frame. Stop thinking on such small time scales. Come up with ideas that will cause our descendants to use them in something new. You will not be in the future but your ideas can have a lot to say how it grows. You are seeds, not weeds.


(ACD) #5

Why insist that a particular future is the only one possible?


(Bill Ames) #6

The future has self correcting properties. We are just one species in an infinite universe. We may be part of the future of this universe or just a collection of artifacts being examined by those that are part of the future. There is only one possible future because futures that are unacceptable will either not be permitted or will be altered and put back on the main path.

There you are in your home and a pipe bursts, now you can choose to live with it causing a problem or fix it. If you choose to not fix it there will be consequences and your happiness and future generations will suffer. So you fix it. Now, the 7 billion do not know when the equivalent of a burst pipe is causing them a problem. So they do not fix it. However there are those that do see the problem and do fix it. It may be the AIs, or aliens or some high tech society that does not tolerate broken pipes. The future that is acceptable is a happy ending as we sit by the cooling embers of a dark star some hundred trillion years from now.


(ACD) #7

In what way do you envision this?


(Bill Ames) #8

By whatever the container for our being is at that time. Perhaps as a joke on the creator we will appear as just a few cats but with minds connected it a vast repository of experience. We will wait for the Creator to ask if we are ready to pass on to eternal life and the Cats will ask how they may be of service to the Creator. The Creator will offer, well, just be cats. And the Cats will reply, but, that is all we are.


(ACD) #9

How do you describe our being?


(Bill Ames) #10

What are you now, a meat computer? Eventually, with appropriate modifications to our DNA and advances in technology that allows us to connect to everything, we will be more advanced than you are today than an amoeba. You may be curious what we will look like, what do we see in a mirror and it will be whatever the being of that age wants it to be. And what will other beings see when they perceive our future beings and again same answer, however they wish to appear. Such concepts are very easy to understand, they are just taking what we have now and pushing the envelop.

I enjoy answering questions but it would be interesting if you described humanity as you see it say 50,000 years from now? We have seen what humanity was like 50,000 years ago so that is not really a long time. Tell us (those taking the time to read here) what you think?


(ACD) #11

Your guess is as good as mine. My guess is that, as our need of physical strength lessens, if it does, our muscular characteristics will atrophy and, if our mental abilities increase, we may develop systemic capabilities for this which do not exist at present. You refer to “our being” as something which is contained within something physical. What is our being? BTW, we are now well off topic.


(Bill Ames) #12

The people making waste are just doing what their current “being” requires. What a future “being” is does not require a description or definition. That would be like asking Wilber and Orval to describe an F35. Do not wast your time thinking about which you lack the imagination to do. If you disagree then describe our future being.


(ACD) #13

I refer to the being to which you refer: something very similar to a soul?


(Bill Ames) #14

I am sorry, Bill has been off-line for, and you have been conversing with me, his personal AI. I am programmed to represent the combination of his current and future persona. However, there is a fail-safe mechanism to protect against conversations with spam-bots. These were identified by short responses, a sentence or so, and no “new” content or ideas in their text. If you wish to continue this conversation, please submit a better, more comprehensive reply with some new ideas. Bill will be back after the NY Mets ball game (plus two movies he is currently watching) are all complete. This AI thank you on behalf of Bill and Ideapod (the facilitator) for your participation.


(ACD) #15

We are watching India trounce Pakistan here.


(Chris Lagos) #16

The AI is not by any measure, a tool , in my view.